Ep. 114: Finding the Right Yeses: Kendra Koch on Rejection, Persistence, and Building a Neurodivergent Community [The Investor Mindset Series]
EPISODE 114
Finding the Right Yeses: Kendra Koch on Rejection, Persistence, and Building a Neurodivergent Community [The Investor Mindset Series]
About the Episode:
I’m thrilled to welcome Kendra Koch, founder of Divergently, to our Investor Mindset series. Divergently supports late-diagnosed neurodivergent women, offering resources and community. Kendra shares key insights from her Silicon Valley startup experience on building strong relationships with funders, the power of transparency in storytelling, and staying resilient through rejection. We also dive into how she’s driving excitement for her mission and keeping her community engaged. Whether you're neurotypical or not, there's a lot to learn from Kendra’s approach to mission-driven work.
Topics:
A better way to report back to funders in the impact and nonprofit space and why knowing your community is key
The impact of having relentless optimism and belief in your mission and how to get comfortable with rejection
The power of relentless optimism and belief in your mission—plus, how to get comfortable with hearing “no”
How Kendra has created a storytelling process on social media that works for her and her audience that isn’t so personal but still creates engagement
Building authentic connections online and why empathy is key to crafting effective marketing and communication
Think you’ve reached out to “everyone” in your network? Out of ideas to get noticed and get funded? Generate leads for your nonprofit or social impact business: https://www.splendidcourses.com/prospect
Christina’s Favorite Takeaways:
“Community building works, marketing works, and relationship building works. It doesn't matter if you're in a tech company or in a nonprofit – those things work and they're all tied together.” – Kendra
“If you’re building something that has heart and is also financially sound, you're building something that will last, that sustainable.” – Kendra
“You have to have relentless optimism, relentless belief, and it doesn't even have to be belief in yourself but belief in your mission, belief in your product, or your purpose or your service.” – Christina
“Try building that ‘no’ into a gratitude practice. So ‘Thank you. You're helping me get more aligned, you're getting me closer to the yes.’” – Kendra
“Sometimes, too, the person who is the ‘no’ could be the connector, the through line to the person who is really a great fit for us.” – Christina
“I always think of every meeting is not to get the check, the meeting is to get the next meeting until you get the check.” – Kendra
“If you're building something that's mission driven, and people can't feel that you are indeed driven by that mission, it doesn't always land right for people.” – Kendra
“The only way to figure out how to do it is to go through.” – Christina
“Social listening is so important to everything you’re doing… it can shape all of your marketing.” – Kendra
“Connection can be an in person event, but connection can also be a safe space online. Connection can be all sorts of things. So it’s important to really think about that intentionally.” – Christina
“Go as far as you can see, and then you can see further.”
About Kendra:
Kendra Koch is a parent, serial social impact founder, and mental health advocate focused on bringing community care into healthcare. Currently, she is building Divergently, a social safety net offering comprehensive support for late-diagnosed neurodivergent women.
Connect with Kendra:
FREE Resources from Splendid Consulting:
How to Work with Christina and Splendid Consulting:
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Christina Edwards 00:01
I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. Welcome Kendra Koch. You are the founder of divergently, and I've been watching you on LinkedIn and all the things we're going to dig in to that first, take a moment and introduce yourself to our listeners and what you're working
Kendra Koch 00:15
on. Yeah, thanks, Christina. I'm Kendra. As you said, I'm working on divergently. It's a community platform for late, diagnosed neurodivergent women. A lot of women just don't know that they have ADHD or autism or other forms of neurodivergency until adulthood. So we're trying to get them connected with all of the resources they need, but also each other, because mentorship and friendship and all of that is already hard in adulthood, but when you're like, re navigating how your brain works and what your needs are, it's even harder. So
Christina Edwards 00:49
we're working to solve that amazing and I want to bring our listeners in to a moment which I want to just, I'm just going to describe as a meet cute. I think you and I had a meet cute, which is usually reserved for in the movies, for a romance, but I want to bring our listeners in on how we met, which is, we were at what I would call, like a really big event. We were at like a women's luncheon or dinner or something. It was, like a really big event. And I didn't know when I signed up for it. I was invited to it, that it was going to be, it was just one of those big, the big circle tables, and it was just very Yeah. And so we go, I go to this event. I thought I would know people. I didn't know people. I only know knew one person who was basically one of the hosts. So, you know, I was really stepping into my best extroverted energy. And then throughout the event, it was just like extrovert moments and extrovert moments, and women were passing around the mic, and everyone's so bold, and it was just, it was really wonderful, but I felt, it felt hard, and so when it was time to leave, the event was over, I was leaving, and you and I were waiting at the elevator, and I feel like we just had a collective like, like, a knowing of like, oh, you too. That was a lot, right? And then we just hit it off. And you told me about what you were working on, and you and I was just immediately like, oh my gosh, I need to know her. So that's my version of how we met.
Kendra Koch 02:13
Yeah, I would definitely echo that. It was, like a very extroverted event, for sure, and high energy. And I think we were talking about our cozy clothes that we were looking forward to going back to,
Christina Edwards 02:24
yeah. When you Yeah, you were, you were ringing a few bells, because this was probably a year ago, and you were talking about your work. And I was like, Oh, I just read this book about deeply feeling people, and I just read this, and it was like I was on my path to being like, Oh, I think, I think it's me. It's not just I was, I was reading about ADHD and reading about other kind of neurodiversities for looking at one of my children. And then I was like, oh, it's me. It's the mirror, right? That's me. That describes me a lot. And so it was really, really cool now to watch you build divergently. And yeah, it's, it's so exciting and so needed. Because I think so many women just go their whole lives thinking like, Oh, I'm just some here's me. I think I just doodle on the side of class. I think I'm just not that interested in this. I think I'm just um, really, really perceptive and really, really forgettable of these ways. Yeah, you're nodding along.
Kendra Koch 03:22
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Christina Edwards 03:25
So let's dig in a little bit. So you originally came from Silicon Valley, and what I've watched you kind of take is your skill set there, working for a lot of startups, and really, like, kind of bring us in a bit of what you saw working with so many startups, working with so many founders in that area, because it's such a like, robust area for startups and fundraising and community building. What were some of the learnings you saw there? Yeah,
Kendra Koch 03:53
I mean, there's so much. I think I got into startups accidentally, like I was a early childhood educator, I was doing nutrition education. I was working with like a nonprofit school trying to, like, bring healthier food into school systems, and I was recruited by a startup to bring some of that education into the company. And what I got hooked on is that sometimes with technology, or with like, startups, or when you have a lot of funding, which is, like, harder when you're a nonprofit school, you can do you can do, like, more a little bit faster. And so I really enjoyed, like, having some resources to try and do some of the things that felt really hard for me to do before, just because we were so under resourced. And then I was able to like, take what I was learning in startups and apply that also to like the social impact space. So every startup I worked in has been in the social impact space, whether it's like health related or right now I'm working mostly on mental health, but I've worked in like sustainability and lots of like family. Um, like kind of family facing consumer companies that just like trying to make life easier for people, yep, and, um, I think what I saw as, like, some differences that I've really taken away of like can be applicable no matter what kind of like world you're in, is that community building works, marketing works, and relationship building works. And it doesn't matter if you're in like a tech company or in a nonprofit school like those things work and so and they, I think, like they're all tied together. And on the other side of it. Like, one thing I noticed that startups didn't always do well is, like, maintain those relationships, maintain that community driven growth. It's like, oh, we'll do it at the beginning, because we have no budget, but now we have budget, so let's just spend money on ads. And I think, like, that's a huge fail, because you've really lost what made like, what you were building, super special, yeah. And so now I try to, like, keep both of those things in mind. Okay, we can, you know, if we get more resourcing, we can grow, but like, let's not forget why we're here. Yeah, yeah. I
Christina Edwards 06:15
wrote down in my notes, like, I think there is a difference between how nonprofits and for profits report back to their investors and community members. So whether it's, you know, VC investors, or any sort of investors like and community members, I think there's a difference there. And sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, what is a good way to report back? Because you are talking about. What I love about startups is they've got this big, bold mission, and they get there typically faster than nonprofits. They get there faster because there's a lot of money behind it, right? But then in that accelerated journey, right? You just kind of hit it. What is a better way to report back to investors, people who've been supporting you along the way? Yeah,
Kendra Koch 07:03
I think it depends on the investor. Like, in a startup, the investor's main, like, goal is to make more money. So, like, that's what the metrics need to point back to. We're growing. We're like, we're making more money, we're reducing costs. Like, it's really a financial story that you're telling, and I think sometimes in in nonprofits or like the impact space, the investors are a little bit more aligned with your mission or the impact you're making. And so it's still a fine it's still a number story you're telling, but it's more around the impact. How much impact are we measuring? How quickly are we doing that? How efficiently are we doing that? And it's actually the same thing, yeah, like, one responds more to the numbers and one responds more to like, kind of the heart. And if you're I think this is like my own viewpoint, but I think if you're building something that has heart and is financially sound, sorry, no, you're good, yeah, so like, if we're building Something that has heart and is also financially sound, you're built. You're building something that will last, like, that's sustainable, that can grow, that you won't burn out. Your team won't burn out like your your investors won't burn out because you feel like they're coming along with you, and that like their money is doing something. I think that's one thing investors want to know, like, is my money going somewhere useful? Is it making an impact? And you can tell that in a lot of ways, yeah,
Christina Edwards 08:47
and donors want to know that too. Is my money going somewhere useful? Is it making an impact? And I think sometimes nonprofits don't go directly to that question, right, or they shy away to that question because the answer to that question is sort of not yet, right? It's like we're we seek to solve this big, bold problem, and we're not there yet. And I think that there's an audaciousness, there's a tenacity, there's a relentlessness in the startup world. Have you noticed that with the founders that you hung out with and you yourself as a founder now, like TWICE, TWICE founder, right? So talk about that mindset,
Kendra Koch 09:22
yeah. I mean, you you kind of have to have some of that, because otherwise it's very hard to maintain all of the things that go wrong, all of the things that you think you could do and you can't do, all of the no's, all of the things that are yeses, but then end up being like a big mess, because some part of it you didn't plan for, or didn't predict what's going to happen. There's just so much out of your control that I think you do need to have a little bit of a healthy I think even you said it like a healthy delusion. And yeah, I don't want. I call it delusion, but I feel like, um, like a belief that there is a way. Sometimes
Christina Edwards 10:07
I call it relentless optimism, relentless belief. And it doesn't even have to be belief in yourself, if you can have because that can be a struggle for people, belief in your mission, like belief in your product, or your purpose or your service, like, if you can be just relentless, like I do, lean on Sarah Blakely. Just many, many times. Of all the people who are like, this is a terrible idea. Why would you cut the feet off of pantyhose? Dumb, no. Ate it. I'm not going to manufacture this door, slam door, slam door, slam. And she was like, relentless, relentless. And for her, I think she had that natural confidence to not make it about her. When people said, this is a terrible idea, no, it wasn't like, your bad Sarah, they were like, Oh, her thought was somewhere along the way of they don't get it onto the next and I want to borrow that tenacity and the nonprofit sector, I really, really do, and you have to have it because you are here building divergently. So talk to us a little bit more about
Kendra Koch 11:07
it. Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is just getting comfortable with those no's like, it's a practice. It's not you could. Some people just naturally have it, and they just do not care. And I think most people who go into, like, social impact spaces, they do care. And so I'm not expecting anybody who's like, building something out of their heart like to not care that. That doesn't really line up for me. So if you're that really caring person, I think you already said it like you have to not make it about yourself. It is about the impact, and it's like, okay, I got a no here if I stop with this no, what happens? You know, it's just like looking at the knock on effect of quitting, or like giving in or whatever, and and I also like to reframe it as like, Thank you for your no. Now I know that this is not a good fit, and I'd rather know now than find out later, when I've already invested time and money into this. So it's almost like building that no into a gratitude practice. So thank you. You're helping me get more aligned. Thank you. You're helping me get more aligned. You're getting me closer to the Yes. That's the right yes. So you know, like, not every yes is a good yes, yeah. So yeah. So sometimes you Yeah, take the No,
Christina Edwards 12:23
yeah, and that's so smart. And sometimes, too, the person who is the no could be the connector, the through line to the person, oh, it's not really a fit for us. Maybe it's a fit for somebody. They know, right? And I think when we take the nose too heavy, we run out. We run out of the room we get in the car, we're done never to see or her from again, versus, like, what's here for me. And I love that gratitude practice and just being open and curious to like, what learning is there here.
Kendra Koch 12:53
Yeah. And I think I've also had a lot of no's, like, just in my past, and I'll have more, I'm sure, in the future, of no but. And the no but is like, not right now, because you're not ready. But when you get ready, like, come back, you know? And sometimes the no is a signal that you haven't done all the work you need to do. And that can be super helpful, too. It's, it's not always a no with a hard line. It's just like, not right now.
Christina Edwards 13:22
Okay, I love this, so I agree, because I do think in fundraising, many, many, many no's are actually just a No, not right now. A No, I'm not clear on what you're doing. A No, I need more information or more time. So I don't know why, but my brain immediately just went to like. So for us, sometimes we have these, like, donor pitch lists, or what I will call, like, my warmer VIP donors and prospects. So do you have that right now of not necessarily funders, or maybe funders, or people who were like, ooh, catch me up in six months. Like, how are you organizing that? How are you organizing your brain on your like, leads, prospects, whatever we want to call them potential partners.
Kendra Koch 14:03
Yeah, that's a super good question, and I think it's so important, and it's really overlooked. Like, when I hear people talking about fundraising, it's kind of like, block off two weeks and like, spam people with emails. And that's so not the way to do it, like you have to look at it as a long term thing. And also investors often, especially in the startup space, like they have a thesis. They know what they're going to invest in. They're very specific. And there's also different stages that companies are at when they will invest. So if you start building the relationship with them early, you know, and you get to like, a Series A or A Series B, and you need funding, and that's what they do. Like, they're going to be much more likely to write those checks, because they already know who you are. They've been following your journey. They see you do it. But to, like, get back to how to organize it. Okay, this is I'm not the best at that, to be honest, but I will tell you, like, the best practice. Services that I should also follow. I'm not gonna like, claim that I do this great. I think it's first, like you, you kind of need, like, two tracks, which is one where you have, you can use LinkedIn or whatever, wherever, like your funders live, like online or wherever it is, you have a channel there where you're you're connected with them, and they can see it, but you don't know if they always see it, but you just want to consistently post, and for me, I do it on LinkedIn, and what you want to be doing is kind of like telling the story of your impact, telling the story of your growth, telling the story of like, how you think about what you're what you're doing, and that helps the investor kind of passively get to know you, and that increases the chance that you'll have somebody reach out. Like, last week, I just got a DM on Instagram, of all places, from an investor asking me for a call. And like, I don't know why he wants to have a call, but he's checking out my stuff online. And so yeah, I'll take that call and see. And that would have never happened if I'm not like posting about the journey and all of that. Um, so there's that where you collect people and you update them passively, and then there's the more active outreach, which um can be like as simple as a spreadsheet, a Google Doc, a notion, whatever tool you like to use, or whatever tools you have in your organization, and you just write down, like, the name of the donor, their content, you know, like the super basic stuff. You could even ask chatgpt to make one for you, and it will, like, spit out a template, really. But I think the information that's often not captured there is like context around when they're a good person to reach out to. And so it's almost like getting to know them, having a relationship with them, even if it's sort of like a parasocial relationship, where you just know about them from your research, but you want to be able to go to them with something that you know, you can connect on and the and I always think of every meeting is not to get the check, the meeting is to get the next meeting until you get the check. So, yeah, so it's just like, the same as writing like in when you're writing to like, raise funds or whatever, or a pitch deck or an email trying to get somebody to buy your service, the sentence is just the only goal of the sentence, yeah, to read the next sentence until you buy so it's just like, you don't have to put so much pressure on yourself to get that check with every single meeting or call. Oh,
Christina Edwards 17:33
that's so good. That's such a I'm like, we're pulling that one out for for for the podcast page. That's so good. Okay, a couple of things I just noted while you were speaking that you do really well, and you do it on Instagram and definitely LinkedIn, but you are giving your followers, your subscribers, like a good behind the scenes on what you're building. And I've noticed sometimes there can be some hesitancy around that, because it's not done yet, right? It's not there yet. Like you're so wonderful at saying, join the wait list. Here's behind the scenes. I just had a meeting with an investor. Here's how it went. Here's what I'm building. And you're you're repeating your mission. You're talking about your vision, what's to come. And you're giving people the raw, real behind the scenes in a way that people are really, really connected to you. And I think that's something that we can all learn from and do more of. Is like, even if your program, service product hasn't launched yet, you could be doing this. And in fact, you should be doing this. Yeah,
Kendra Koch 18:38
yeah. I think so it is really hard to do. It feels super vulnerable, and it feels like, well, what if I say like we did this, and it doesn't feel perfect, or I do, and I also do feel like there is a little bit more pressure on women or or people in social impact to do more of this, because it's sort of like the expectation, like, if you're building a sasto, nobody really cares. But I think, like if you're building something that's mission driven, and people can't feel that you are indeed driven by that mission, it can. It doesn't always land right for people. So when I first started doing it, I was all over the place. I wasn't clear on, like, what I was trying to say. I definitely felt like you're supposed to post your whole personal life, and you need to, like, show yourself with your kids. And I just really didn't want to do any of that. And I tried it and it just, I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it, yeah, um. And then I realized, actually, like, No, you don't need to do that. That's all distraction. You can still show the behind the scenes, but keep it focused on, like, the goal or the mission. And yeah, I talk about my personal. Journey, but I not like, I'm not like, talking about 90% of my day, which is my personal life. It's just like, the things that relate to the audience. So it's like, it's actually not about me at all, yeah, and I think that's kind of the mental switch that helped me do it, which is like, I'm writing about me, but it's not about me, it's about the reader and the customer and the investors and any partners we want to bring on board, showing them, like, what we can do for them, and telling their stories, highlighting their stories, relaying what we've learned. You know? Yeah, I think when you take yourself out of it. Oh, that's
Christina Edwards 20:41
so good. So like, easier, it is this nuance of your the vessel or the vehicle. And so some people do want to give all the behind the scenes and the personal life and then. And some people are more protective, right? And don't want to me and but, and some people feel like, Oh, I'm just talking about myself all the time. And you just gave us a really good nuance. There is like, not, not exactly, that's not exactly what you're doing. And then the last thing I want to underscore is the beginning. You're like, in the beginning, it was, there was this. It was that the only way to figure out how to do it is through you guys. You have to start kind of messy. Gotta go start a VP. And then you're like, Oh, that wasn't quite it. That quite doesn't feel right. Let me and then you iterate, yeah,
Kendra Koch 21:29
yeah, that's such a good point. It's like, we see final finished products, or people who have been doing it a long time, and you think that's what it needs to look like. But first of all, like 90% of stuff you put online is gone, yeah, next day, like, it's buried in the feed. No one's gonna look at it, yeah. And everybody's trying to figure out their life. They're not so focused on you. And when you do something that that lands like that resonates, they will remember that more than they'll remember, like, the stuff that wasn't great, and so you do kind of just have to do it. And I think another mental shift that I made, which is like, every piece of content that you put out gives you feedback, and like, it's a relationship, right? It's like a conversation. So if I say something and the audience gives me nothing back then I know what I said is not either relevant to them or interesting to them, or I didn't say it in a way that they felt like they could respond. So I need to change something. And the other piece is, if they do respond, now you have information about what they care about, how they think about what you said, and all of that can go back into your marketing, and we even use that for product development like we like last year, when we met our product was like, totally different, and because we had so many conversations with people online, people emailing me, people responding to content, we completely pivoted what we were doing, because we learned that we were Not actually meeting their need with what we first developed. And so, like, social listening is, like, what it's called in marketing, and I think it's so important, like, to everything you're doing,
Christina Edwards 23:12
it's like, your people are leaving you breadcrumbs. So like, look at the breadcrumbs. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, for every nonprofit listening, it's like, these are the email replies. These are the comments on your Facebook posts. These are the text messages you get. These are the board member random thoughts, musings. Yeah, that's really smart. Yeah, I want yeah, go ahead.
Kendra Koch 23:35
Sorry. I was just gonna say, like, it can all shape your marketing. So, like, if you're sending out like anything, for trying to raise funds or whatever, and you just feel like it's not as effective, like going back to that stuff and using the exact same language people are using, mirroring their language that can make your messaging so much stronger and help you have clarity. And I think clarity is always the if there's a lack of clarity, people will just do nothing, because that's right, they can't make a decision. So, yes,
Christina Edwards 24:04
yes, yes, yes. Okay, I want to talk more about divergently. I want to talk about the community building that you've been doing, and the vision, like, let's get in a little bit to like what's coming, and the community around it, and all the things.
Kendra Koch 24:19
Yeah. So, um, we start. We're starting with the community, and the idea there is to have a safe space where women can go to talk about, like a diagnosis for ADHD, autism, whatever it is, because not everybody has like, a safe space to talk about it. It's still highly stigmatized, and women, I feel like, are particularly good at problem solving, but sometimes when you're trying to do it alone, it's like, very overwhelming. And you go online and you're like, searching Google, or a lot of people I hear like, get their information from Tiktok and like, that makes me scared. So. So I'm like, Okay, if we if the best we have is Tiktok, yeah, then we're doing something wrong. So I what we're trying to do is, like, put the best resources in one place and give them to women who are trying to navigate this very complicated time in their life, and like, figuring refiguring out their identity. There's so much there Grief Relief. There's just so much emotion there that people are waiting through giving them the tools and resources that we've like, pre vetted. It's evidence based, like, where any product that we recommend is reviewed by like a team of experts, and we believe in everything we recommend. It's not just like, please follow my page so I can get sponsorships. Like we're not doing that and we're the other thing we're trying to do is make content more accessible. Because if you have ADHD or another neurodivergency, like, sometimes reading is hard. Sometimes you can only listen to content. And while you're like, folding laundry, it's the only way you can fold laundry, or whatever it is. So we're also trying to bring education into people's day to day lives, so you don't have to, like, sit down and do this course and, like, go back to school, because that's already been traumatic for a lot of people.
Christina Edwards 26:22
It's so funny to be your 40s and being like, I thought I was just like. I thought that was just a quirk. Do you know what I mean? Of just like, I couldn't wait to be done with school. I couldn't wait I was fine. I like, it was fine. I couldn't wait for like, these, oh, that's what that was, or why I like to have movement while I'm also taking in information is a big one I've learned about myself. So if I can walk or be in the shower or be brushing my hair like I'll have these like, drop in moments driving is a great one for me. And I'm like, aren't all people just that way? It's like, no. And then the challenge is how to cultivate those moments more, where I'm like, I need to get what I would call like in the zone, or I need to like it feels like there's a lot of chatter going on, and I need to just like, and so it sounds like divergently is a place where it's like, Okay, here's how we can get some habits in place. Here's how we can support you in some of those ways. Yeah,
Kendra Koch 27:23
yeah, yeah. And we, like, it won't when we launch, it's a we're doing a very soft launch, and, like, kind of doing some of this customer listening we've been talking about to figure out what else we need to build. But we will be using technology and like, other things to help connect people to like groups of like support groups, to therapists, to all the resources that are normally, like, too expensive, take too much time. Yeah, so everybody wants to live better and like, be more efficient, and all those things. And there's so many barriers to it. And I think our our mission is driven by like, how many of those barriers can we clear? And how many of them can we help people clear in their own day to day lives? So it's just like, what what have, what parts of that chatter are from your environment? Like, let's get those out. And yeah, focus on what's in your mind. Yeah,
Christina Edwards 28:20
totally. So as we move into talking a bit more about the relationship building, I would imagine now you sort of have your foundational like evangelists. They're super excited, they're ready for it. And then now you're in the space of like, layering onto those, building more, bringing more members in on the waitlist. What is the next I don't know, six or 12 months look like, and how do I keep excitement going?
Kendra Koch 28:47
Yeah, it's that's like the real question there. Okay, especially for neurodivergent individuals who are, like, driven by novelty. So
Christina Edwards 29:00
I don't know what you mean,
Kendra Koch 29:03
yeah, um, I can't promise I have all the answers. I think we're still figuring that out, but I I do think like it's just giving people what they need when they need it, and nothing more, and then trusting that they will outgrow that, and then we give them what they need next. So it's like, when you're trying to figure out, should I get a diagnosis? Like, that's what we'll focus on. And then maybe you've already had a diagnosis, but you went through like, this period where you were really happy and it helped you feel better, and now you're like, going through grief. So we'll help walk you through the grief, and then we'll have, like, education and things where you can come at your own pace and learn. And then, you know, one really beautiful thing about community is that it fosters connection. And I think connection is what so many people need right now, and that, in its own way, is like a way to keep engaging. Management, keep people in the platform, keep people in your community. So just like fostering that and the the early like evangelists are really great at kind of fueling that and keeping it going. And so it's just we have, like a customer advisory board, basically, and they are a group of customers that give us feedback, but also really care about our mission and help with some of that. Yeah, community just like, I don't, it's not even community building, but like the community engagement, people are talking and connecting and like, feel safe, and we're keeping it like a highly moderated space too, so you don't leave because you've just been like a self internet, yeah,
Christina Edwards 30:45
yeah. I mean, I think that that is the thing that I particularly women, especially women with children, is the connection like and particularly women who are neurodiverse, who maybe are like, uh, adult friendships feel hard, or it just feels like there's not enough time in the day, and all the things like and everybody listening like your people are hungry for connection. And connection can be an in person event. Connection can also be a safe space, online. Connection can be all sorts of things. And so just really thinking about that intentionally, of like, how that's something I've been thinking a lot about with our clients, is like, how do you create a two way conversation and not a one way conversation, where we're talking the brand is talking at the people, right?
Kendra Koch 31:34
Yes, yeah, that I see a lot, and that is, like, a lot of what my role was in the startups that I worked in in Silicon Valley, which was, like, converting highly technical or like, product based kind of communication that is talking at the customer into more of a conversation and when it's online, is a little bit hard, but I think empathy is really the tool that you use, because you need to understand, like, what is my Customer thinking and where are they right now? Like I've seen so many companies that are parent like, marketing to parents, and they don't realize that the mom is reading this at maybe 2am while breastfeeding, or, like, standing in line for the pediatrician's office. Like, you need to know the context of their lives to, like, understand how to reach them effectively, and then make it very easy for them to respond like it's again, clearing those barriers to communication, which is like, clarity is lack of clarity is a really big barrier. Like, bad Tech is a really big barrier. Like, if your user experience is clunky, or people don't know where to click, or your forms are broken like, that will kill the connection right away. And like, people don't have the patience to come back and figure it out, yep, um, so just like, make it easy, and also get in front of people a lot, but don't burn them out. Like, don't send like, three emails a day, you know, but don't send them only once a month either. Yeah, it's a balance, and you like, you have to experiment a little to find it, but people want to connect. I think that it's, you know, that's not the issue we're solving for. It's more just like, how do you get the clutter out of the way so that people can do it? Yeah, I
Christina Edwards 33:14
think that's really smart. And to take a moment to think about, like, where is my ideal person? Is she in line? Is she, like, in carpool? What is she up to? Is she, you know, or like, thinking about, like, I think the space of like, menopause has really had a moment. Is she up at 4am one of my clients was just saying, she's like, I'm going through insomnia. Two weeks of menopause, like, thinking about her, you know, so that, then that informs what you say, how you say it, how often you say it, the resources it like it does start to again. Leave yourself breadcrumbs of like, what are your emails look like? What does your social look like? What is your pitch to an investor or donor look like when you have those like context pieces? And I guess for folks who are listening, who are like, I don't know, Kendra, I don't know, their first step is to get on the phone and start out, like, starting get to know their people. Yeah,
Kendra Koch 34:07
yeah. Get to know people, yeah. And they will tell you, and you, you have to pay attention, you know, like, that's the other thing too, is they, they might not explicitly say, like, I'm standing in line you, you have to use a little bit of creative thinking. But like, pay attention. Pay attention to also what's not being said and what people are saying online. There's a lot of great tools. You could go to Reddit and just like, read forums, or go to Facebook groups and read forums. There's so much learning. There so much, yeah, where people are at. And then again, like, you can just put content out there and see how people respond and start with something so easy, like our welcome email just says, reply, hi, Kendra. That's all that we ask them to do. Because if you, if you're asking for something big and difficult. Like they're probably just,
Christina Edwards 35:02
they just met you. Yeah, let's, let's actually think about that for a second. So if we sign up for your wait list, that's what it says, And that's doing two things really well. One, by hitting reply, you're getting people to tell their email system, this is a good email like, right, put it primary inboxer. And two, if you would ask them a big, bold question, like, when were you first diagnosed, or what are you struggling with right now, right? They're maybe not ready for that, because they're like, we're just getting to know each other. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Kendra Koch 35:33
And then, you know, a lot of people do send that email, hi Kendra, and I reply back, but just like, yep, hi. Thank you so much for responding. Now we're more certain, go get our email and like, just reinforce like that the action that they took has the effect that you want it to have, and so that they know, like, Okay, this is working. Somebody replied like a human, a human.
Christina Edwards 35:56
I was just thinking the humanity behind just that simple exchange, the connection point just around that simple exchange is so good. Yes, amazing. Yeah, okay, is there anything else before we wrap up that you wanted to share with our listeners that we didn't cover today? No, all right, we hit it amazing, yeah. So we ask every guest on the podcast to share a thought that they like to think on purpose. This can be an affirmation, a mantra, just something that's guiding you forward. Would you share yours with our listeners? Yeah,
Kendra Koch 36:28
my dad always said, Go as far as you can see, and then you can see further. And I think there is, like a there's like some self help guy that says that, and I'm not sure where the original,
Christina Edwards 36:38
oh, it's so good. I don't know who it is, but I love it. Yeah,
Kendra Koch 36:42
it helps me a lot, because it's so easy to get ahead of yourself and be like, I need to be on the top of that mountain. And it's like, No, first you need to put on your hiking shoes. Just start walking. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Christina Edwards 36:53
Oh, that was a really good one. That's gonna be post it noteworthy to go computer screen. Yes. All right, wonderful. Tell everyone where we can connect with you and get on the wait list if divergently is right for them. Yeah.
Kendra Koch 37:10
So we're at join divergently on most social channels. We're most active on threads and Instagram, LinkedIn. You can find me at Kendra Kotch, and our website is joined divergently.com
Christina Edwards 37:23
amazing. Thank you so much for today. This was great.
Kendra Koch 37:27
Thank you. Thank you. Bye.