Ep. 115: Courageous Conversations and Inclusive Leadership with Jenn Graham [The Investor Mindset Series]
EPISODE 115
Courageous Conversations and Inclusive Leadership with Jenn Graham [The Investor Mindset Series]
About the Episode:
I’m excited to have Jenn Graham, founder and CEO of Inclusivv, on this final episode of the Investor Mindset Series. Inclusivv creates spaces for courageous conversations around inclusion and civility, and Jenn’s passion for building community shines through. Find out about her unique approach to networking—making real, meaningful connections instead of just transactional ones—and her journey navigating the ups and downs of fundraising as a female founder.
Topics:
How Jenn raised $2M by building real relationships and pitching bold, impact-driven visions
How Jenn’s reimagined networking goes beyond transactions and focuses on shared visions, deep conversations, and authentic connections
The secret to pitching with confidence—why leading with purpose resonates with investors
How to handle rejection with grace, learn from it, and use clarifying questions to turn a “no” into future opportunities
Building civil conversations in polarized environments and how curiosity plays a role in fostering inclusive communities
Why vulnerability is a superpower for female founders—it builds trust and forges deeper connections
Think you’ve reached out to “everyone” in your network? Out of ideas to get noticed and get funded? Generate leads for your nonprofit or social impact business: https://www.splendidcourses.com/prospect
Christina’s Favorite Takeaways:
“The best way to make progress around the issues you care about is to find other people who are also excited and energized by that particular topic or issue.’’ - Jenn
“The side conversations that can happen outside of the main room is where the best connections are formed.’’ - Jenn
“Women want to make sure that they are investing their time, energy, and effort into something that is going to have a positive impact on the world.’’ - Jenn
“There will be some people who are disappointed, but that's also the game that comes with investors. You have to remind yourself that investors are in it for money, and you're in it for believing in this bigger vision.’’ - Jenn
“When there's a lack of clarity, ask clarifying questions.’’ - Jenn
“Separate your personal identity from the company, and know that you are okay as your own individual self, and you are providing this company with an immense asset.’’ - Jenn
“Every connection you make is an opportunity in the future, whether it's a fit right now or not.’’ - Jenn
“We have to be brave enough to actually engage in a conversation and be willing to try on the other perspective.’’ - Jenn
“When you're being curious, it does not mean that you are agreeing with the person.’’ - Jenn
“I'm not here to be right. I'm here to get it right.’’ - Jenn
“Change me into one who can fully love, forgive, and accept myself so that I may carry your light without restriction.”
About Jenn:
Jenn Graham is the founder and CEO of Inclusivv dedicated to fostering trust, inclusion and meaningful dialogue in communities and organizations worldwide.
As a social innovation designer and former TEDxAtlanta organizer, Jenn has pioneered a unique approach to social change, using the power of structured conversations to bring together diverse voices and perspectives.
In 2022, Inclusivv was a finalist in the SHRM 2022 Better Workplaces Challenge Cup — a global competition among startups working to build better workplaces, and a better world.
Connect with Jenn:
Episode Resources:
FREE Resources from Splendid Consulting:
How to Work with Christina and Splendid Consulting:
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Christina Edwards 00:00
Jen Graham is in the house. Welcome. You're the founder and CEO of inclusive. Let's dig in. We know each other. We know each other because you're in Atlanta. It's so nice to see you. First tell us about your work with inclusive, and we're going to dig straight into this series.
Jenn Graham 00:16
Love it. Well, inclusive is all about bringing people together for courageous conversations, and we've been doing this now for over a decade. Most of us, especially in the Atlanta area, know us as civic dinners. We're still legally known as that, but inclusive. You know, as you know, covid canceled dinner, so we had to completely reimagine ourself, our service, our offering, and it has evolved so much since then, but our core and our purpose has remained the same, which is to really create spaces where everybody feels like their voice can be heard, and where they can co create a better future together. And that feature is inclusive, and it is is representative of everyone. So that's that's what we do. We work with a variety of different organizations, large and small all over the world, and our new, new partnership with SHRM, the Society of Human Resource Management, has really taken us into an exciting direction around civility.
Christina Edwards 01:18
And Jen, you are somebody I feel like. So that means I've known you for a decade. Then if we do fast math, somewhere around there, you're somebody who's a mover and a shaker and just a natural connector. And that's part of why I wanted to have you on this, on this series, is because if I'm at an event, if I'm out, just having these big community conversations, whether it's about equity, whether it's about politics, whether it's leaning into hard conversations in trying times like you're always at these these events, and you're just such a great connector, and that's really what we're going to dig into today, because you bring a you bring a lens, an amount of Heart, an amount of confidence and courage to these conversations, like you're willing to stand up in a room full of hundreds of people and just take the mic and we go, and I've watched you through your career do that again and again and again, and it's why inclusive is where it is today. Is because you're in the room. I mean, you're I think we've all made the joke of like, if there's not a seat at the table, bring your own damn seat room at the table. So let's dig into networking. Talk to me about how networking has played a role for bringing this vision to life. Why is it that important?
02:35
Wow. Well, I'll first admit that I don't consider myself a networker by any means. I I am. I'm probably more of a recovering activist, and I have discovered that the best way to make progress around the issues you care about is to find other people who are also excited and energized by that particular topic or issue. So I tend to gravitate towards events or things that that are about bringing more people together around an issue that needs to need some love or attention or needs to be wrestled with. And that's that's where you'll likely find me these days, especially with kids. I admit I am not on the networking, but I think the power of relationships is, what if anything inclusive, and the work that we do has proven that to be the sweet spot where it's about it's not about transactional. Hey, here, hey, I've got a job for you. Or, Hey, can you introduce me to so and so, it's really deep, meaningful questions we don't people will walk away from a conversation not even knowing where this person works or what they do, but they will find that they have a lot of common ground around a particular topic or issue. So that that's what excites me, even from the very beginning of my career and on boundary and being able to be the CO organizer of TEDx Atlanta. We we've always been very intentional about building community and allowing ideas to be the connecting force, not necessarily like, oh, that with for the purpose of selling somebody something.
Christina Edwards 04:17
Oh, that's so good. Okay, so this was a good reframe, so I call it networking, and you're like, shared vision, shared curiosity, shared ideas, bringing people together, yes, and just having conversations, right?
04:30
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's it. To me, it's, that's it, yeah, I, I'm a big believer in going deep with somebody and having, even if I, if I go to an event, and I only talk with five people, but I have really deep, meaningful conversations with those people, those are the relationships that can blossom into partnerships, collaborations and and really, you know any any potential support in the future, whether or not that's a friend or potential coach. Legal or client or customer. So, okay, how
Christina Edwards 05:02
do you do that? You're at an event, and I did. The default is, hey, how's it going? What do you know? What I mean in the chit chat, how do you go deep?
05:12
Oh, the first is, oh my gosh, it's so good to see you, right to meet you. I'm curious what resonated with you today. Like, especially, for example, we were, I was keynoting at the B LAB the build Southeast Conference, and I missed some of the day portion, so I was genuinely curious, like, what tell me about, like, what you learned today and what stood out for you. And so just really leaning in and getting curious about them and their takeaways. And it also adding immense value for me, so that I could find something to to connect on around an issue I care about. Okay,
Christina Edwards 05:48
some really great tips already from scratch. And it's not transactional. It's like, it's not that networking, where you're like, Oh, who's in the room that I need to get in front of. That feels ick, right, totally
06:01
and sometimes it's even the side conversations that can happen outside of the main room that's sometimes where the best connections are formed. And so when I, like, you know, jet out to try to either find the restroom or get a coffee, sometimes those random meet ups, so you know where you're not intentionally bumping into somebody, but those conversations can be really striking, where someone might introduce you or speak about something that you might have in common, and there's an opportunity to deeply connect on on something and make even a plan to reconnect later if you want, if to continue the conversation. So I find aside conversations that happen either in the back of the room as everybody know someone's out there. Not that I at all wish anybody to speak while someone else is speaking on stage, but if it happens, you know those those little opportunities to rub up against new people from different backgrounds and and even just bond over what they're hearing and listening to in that moment that can be pretty
Christina Edwards 07:03
much, Oh, I love that, yes, leave room for the small conversations, which means get off your phone in those little moments where you're waiting in line at the coffee you know, right, get off your phone and leave room. Yeah, that
07:17
is so true. So the food line is the perfect opportunity to strike up one of those. What resonated most for you? Boom. And then now you have a lunch mate you can sit next to.
Christina Edwards 07:26
Love it. Love it, love it. So let's talk about because in the green room, I was like, All right, let's talk about pitching to investors like you've had your share of pitching. I would imagine you're pretty seasoned. You've raised quite a bit of money at this point, you've had a ton of success with inclusive so what stands out as effective strategies or just learning lessons that you've that you're like, oh, that's where it clicked for me along the way, walk us through that,
07:55
I think, Oh my gosh. I mean, I have had the privilege of being a part of so many different accelerators and incubators, and from Goody nation with Joey Womack to the center for civic innovation with Rohit and so many other amazing mentors that have helped coach me, from even my first investor, Kim seals. So she and so all but all of them have in common. Like, there's a there's obviously a simple framework, there's an understood expectation that, when you're pitching to an investor, that you're going to go through those essential 10 slides, right? There's like, I'm not going to get all of them right, but the first, like, the problem is the solution and why it matters, and and to That's right, and show the proof of what you've done. Yep, talk about your successes. And I think that's one, especially as a female founder, I find it sometimes we tend to bat around the bushes and not really say, Hey, this is what we've done, and this is the traction, and this is our vision for the future, and here's where I see us going. And yes, this can be a hockey stick company if we find the right partners and we get the right, you know, distribution channels. So I think it's all about these, these, having a vision and understanding that the levers that need to be pushed that also will resonate with investors. Also the importance of storytelling is profound. Like you've got to have a very succinct way of explaining how you got where you are, why it matters. And if you have a personal lived experience as to why you started your company, start with that. Start with that human connection and why you care about this, because when the going gets tough and you feel like quitting, that is what's going to keep you going, and that's what they need to know. They need to know that you're in it for the for the heart, and that you are you're going to be very resourceful with the money that they're giving you. And you believe that this can be a 10x company, right? The SCALE FACTOR. Factor is really important for investors and that, and honestly, there are a lot of other kinds of funding out there that that exists, from revenue based funding to line of credits. Now that we have profitable for the last year, that has totally changed the game, so that we're not having to hunt very expensive investor money, but instead go after some other sources. Okay, you
Christina Edwards 10:24
hit on a couple things. I'm like, we gotta drill into it. So one was the scale factor. So something I've noticed particularly with female founders female fundraisers, is we shy away from the big, bold vision. Like, do you know what I mean, like that, that audacious, this is the thing that we this is what we're doing. Like this is happening, and instead, it's like, the safe, yeah, I think I could do that vision, yeah, because the big, bold vision is a vision, and is it there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee for anyone. But I see, I see a lot of startups with with, you know, men who are fundraising, who are like making these crazy, audacious promises. They have a crazy, audacious vision for their company, for their ambition, and it is no more, no more likely to happen for them than it is for you, but the pitch sounds different. One is like, hell yeah, I'm coming with them. That's exciting. And the other is like, okay, so what do you say to
11:31
that? Oh my gosh. Well, I think it's in our nature as women, right? We are reasonable beings. We, we, we know that it's going to take a lot of work, and there are a lot of unknowns, and so we tend to be more practical, and we're that's we know, and obviously we're the ones that are also managing the budgets at home. So we kind of have this practicality when it comes to what's possible and forceivable. And it does rub up against the the need for investors to be able to see, is this a big is this a unicorn opportunity, because they have to invest in 10 possibly unicorn opportunities to get in order to get one. And you might have to ask yourself, you know, do I want a the unicorn lifestyle of a founder, or am I actually okay with having a more like a lifestyle business, which is what they call it, right? Steady growth, strong revenues, that is something to be proud of, to be to and know that, like steady growth over time, you do not have to bet it all on the horse and go all in and hire too fast, in my opinion, to be able to get to that unicorn status. There are other ways of getting there. So so I think we internalize and there's a conflict in and of itself. Do you want to be a unicorn, or do you want to be the steady, lifelong business and be able to maintain more control of your company long term as well? And so that there's a give and take. And so I think we are, we're irrational around that. I think the other thing is, there's this all. It goes back to nature. Bees. I don't know if you know this, but bees, when they are trying to find a new home, they have very specific metrics that they need to find for a new beehive. And when they have these scouts that will go out and they'll try to find one, and then they'll come back, and it's the bees that have the most energetic dances about their vision are the ones where all the other bees will follow. That's what I'm saying. This is nature right now, right? So if you are excited about your vision, you're gonna get other people excited. If you're kind of like, I think so, but I don't know you're not gonna follow you or give you money. So it's just that, that. And then the final thought is that we are manifesters, anybody who dares to dream big and believes in something bigger than themselves and more than about making money and has a vision for the impact. So if you speak to I'm not here to just make you 10 million I'm here to train a million people on how to have civil conversations and just imagine the impact that will have in our world and our leadership in the political spaces that we're in and they invite. So just speak to the impact that yes, of course, the dollar signs will follow, that the quickly add up. Okay, a million people going through facilitation training and classes, that's okay. So, but you're, you're leaning to the impact of the individuals and so, so there's a slight shift in how you can have this big, grand vision if you anchor it in the impact. And I know women, especially, we tend to want to be the do gooders. We want to, you know, we're a B Corp. We're certified. We just got recertified too. So, but we have, we want to make sure that we are investing our time and energy and effort into something that is going to have a positive impact on the world. So talk about that. If the money makes you uncomfortable, for now, we can work on that, but talk about the impact and have the dollars back that up.
Christina Edwards 14:57
Okay, love this, and I think the Bee example. Perfect, because what I see is, I see a lot of nonprofit fundraisers go, what is the perfect set string of words I'm supposed to say to my potential funder? What should I say to them? What I tell them often is, it's actually not the 10 words you say together, it's the energy behind the words, like, do I believe you? Am I coming with you? Am I excited for this? And I think what keeps people from having that excitement that you just described, or that belief of, like, this is what we're creating, and having that huge growth, is that inner monolog? Well, one you said practical, which, yes, there's that. It's like, Well, I haven't done it before, so I don't know. And I think there's like, a failure thing happening, of like, what if we fail at this? What if we do get funded for this? And what if it just isn't what I think it is. I think there's a fear of that piece. And how have you talked yourself through that piece? Oh, you
15:56
just ask, you ask yourself, well, what's, what's the worst possible scenario here? And I've been there this last, last year, this time, I didn't know if inclusive would exist in 2024 and because we had that, the downside of taking on investment, especially if it's a convertible note, is that eventually those notes expire, and then you have to renegotiate. And if you're in a worse off position than you were, or the economy is in a worse off position, or combo of the two, they have the power and that renegotiation. And so you can find yourself almost stuck in a place where, okay, either I need to find a million dollars magically, or I'm gonna have to pay them back, or I'm going to have to figure out a reasonable next step, and they are also still going to want to exit strategy, right? And so I did, I did the hard thing because I, you know, I love this company so much, I poured my heart and soul into it the last decade. And with, with the help of my husband, we just, we just walked through the door. We just had like, okay, door one is that, you know, we have to close up. We close shop, and we, we figure it all out, and we, we set it aside. But then what does that mean that I can do? It means I get rid of all the debt. Means I get I clear up all these things. It means that I can what, what would Jen Graham me be able to do now, though, I would be able to do what I'm still doing, right? And I was like, Oh, wait, I can. I can write a book. I can have more time with my kids, like, I'm going to be okay. It's not the end of the world, right? And so when we think about what happens at the end is, of course, there will be some people who are disappointed, but that's also the game that comes with investors that they know not everyone's going to make it, and to them, it's a tax write off at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out. So it's for angels, right? And another so you have to remind yourself that they're in it for money, and you're in it for believing in this bigger vision. And so what it allowed the second door was like, Okay, now that I've actually gone through that and realized I'm going to be okay, and I'll be able to do something else next time with the lessons learned from a startup. Yep. Worst case scenario is we, you know. The second option is we, we offer or sell it, and we get something for it, but not everything, enough to kind of keep it going a little bit. And we, we trade off, invest or whatever. You know, the different options, it's a little bit better than the worst case still, yep. And then the third option is we absolutely find the lever that is going to really make a difference. And so once you start identifying what is in the business model that is making me fearful of it failing, and you dare to ask that question, why would this company fail? Then you start to get to some really interesting answers, right? Lack of sales team, lack of the lack of success on that. Well, let's how do we solve for a lack of sales team? What's another way of getting through sales right? And so our the fact that we secured this partnership with Sherm eliminated the need for a sales team like we are in marketing even so we now we're in a much stronger position than we were last year, without having to have any more investment or spend any more money. So I think, and it also allowed me once I realized, once I asked the hard question of, what would I do if I was not the founder and CEO of inclusive? And I discovered it was the exact same thing I'm doing today. I'd bring people together around the issues I care about. I would facilitate conversations. I would do this. And so I was like, oh, fuck, sorry. Why not just double down on what you're doing now, Jen, you know, like, Give it all you guys going. And so that's what I recommitted to it. Once I faced the fear, I was like, I got this and boom, immediately after, it's like that shift in mindset, shifting from a place of scarcity, where it's like, oh my god, I'm terrified of losing this. Then you start to cut, cut, cut, cut, and you think so small. And you see you think about self preservation, but your company cannot live in that mindset very long, if you're just in self preservation. Innovation. Instead, you have to just like, get out of that bubble burst, find a way to, like, punch through it and say, Okay, if we do this one thing, this would make the difference for us. This is the vision that I have, and we're going to start marching towards that, and I'm going to recommit and find that one thing that brings, brings it back and and that that shift in abundance. Once I was able to get a line of credit, suddenly the financial stress was gone. That was number one. You got to be financially secure in order to be able to think abundantly, right? Then you've got to start securing, start some small wins, get some nude sales in the door, boom, boom, boom. And all of a sudden you've got momentum. Now this partnership is starting to form, and you've got something positive to talk about with investors and future, and then all of a sudden it's happening, and you're in the whirlwind of it all, and you're like, holy shit, it's coming to life and fucking manifested that.
Christina Edwards 20:58
If you're not watching the video, she's holding up a wand. Y'all this was, I love this, this idea of asking the hard question, because I think a lot of times that inner monolog like, what if I fail? What if I fail and I want to fail? We actually don't investigate it. We just loop on that. And what you just walked us through was like, go to the worst case scenario, and then you realize, like, I got me. I got my values. I have myself, I have I would still be doing it in a slightly different way. And then you start to, like, release that loop so and it's like, oh, now I can just get to work, and here we are. And it's almost like, without that point, you wouldn't be where you are today. And this was also a good that was a good kind of walk through of the big questions you ask and inclusive. You're so great at that of these, like deep questions, where you're like, ooh, ooh, that was deep. So as we as you have gone through this process talking with funders, getting lines of credit, things like that. Certainly you've heard your share of no's before. How have you handled rejection. How have you gone through that process when maybe you were like, no, no, this was the pitch. Christina. This was the deck. I knew it was going to be a good I had a warm intro. This was going to be it. How do you keep going when you're like, well, crap, that was it. Yeah, yeah,
22:17
wow. Well, first of all, I feel, I feel every yes that I get, I feel that much more appreciative for the nose that I had before, because I learned from the nose what I needed to share or do differently or say or work on in order to get a yes. And so I think the I felt in the beginning, especially, there was a sense of, I don't know what I'm doing. There was a sense, you know, there was a little bit of that imposter syndrome of, oh my gosh, investors and like, I don't even know how this game works. They're gonna beat me at this before I even get started. And so just education around what it means, what what are, what's a convertible note versus equity round, and educating myself on that, going through all the seminars, and then once I and also understanding what it is that a that is required in a pitch. And once you get a no, don't just say, don't take the Oh, it's just not a good time right now or a good fit. Ask for more. So we say in all of our teachings, when there's when there's a lack of clarity, ask clarifying questions. Say, would you mind spending just 15 minutes with me to walk me through what exactly is the the main, the main points of of why you're not investing totally understand. Would love to, but I would love to know so that I can work on those and be able to come back to you or others in the future and be able to get a yes, I just want to know. And if you're willing, if they are a good investor and they are intentionally trying to help support the growth of future companies, then they will take that time. If they're asshole, then they won't disappear. It goes to because they feel awkward with confrontation, right? So I think if you have the courage to ask and say, Hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing it. I know we are all I'm always wanting to learn more about what exactly I can improve so that I can be in a better position with the next investor opportunity. So point blank, you got nothing to lose. It's kind of like and I learned this skill knocking on doors as a kid, selling, God knows what, wrapping paper, pumpkins, whatever we need to sell.
Christina Edwards 24:37
Totally sold the wrapping paper,
24:41
Girl Scout cookies. You know, not everybody wants them, and it's okay. And I teach my son, my son has a little lemonade stand full plug on Saturdays, and he'll sell cookies and lemonade and rainbows. And he learned that he needs to have Venmo on. Um, because, yeah, that's a necessary thing. But he'll, he'll see, he'll say cookies made, but he'll put on his best show. It'll be so cute. And some dudes will walk straight by and not even engage. And he looks at me like, and I'm like, Hey, you're not, not. Everybody is a fit, and that's okay. And that is something so important to learn early on that it's not. It is not a take on your worth, your personal worth. You have to kind of separate the personal side of this from the business and look at it like a badass business partner and not your baby. So yeah, look at the business, and that was like a lot of very expensive leadership coaching that I learned now. So I'm giving it away. But yes, separate your personal identity from the company and know that you are okay as your own individual self, and you are providing this company with an immense, unvaluable, like invaluable, like, just asset. And so without you, you know, yes, the company might not be worth anything, so remember that. But that doesn't mean that you're worth you are worth less when people don't want to invest right? It's like that, that balance. So just know that you are a big piece of this company, but that is not your identity as a whole. And that that for me, that separation from, rather than thinking of it as my baby to thinking of it as a badass business partner that we're co creating together, that just mentally helped me separately.
Christina Edwards 26:29
I love that that gives it some like sturdiness and some grit, for when you are in those situations where, where the funder is like, I don't know. Let me think on it, and you're like, All right, bye, you know. So you're like, hang on, let me not run out of the room. Or you get the just the stern person who's like, I know. So when you think of it that way, I think that's a really great reframe.
26:53
And appreciate those that take the time to give you that feedback, because you they are going to help you be better next time. So thank them. Be gracious, you know, and you never know they might come back around when later time. So always, every connection you make is an opportunity in the future, whether it's if it's not a fit now. And they always say, you know, build trust before you need it, and build those relationships with investors before you go ask them and and you're more likely to get either strong feedback as to why they can't invest in you now, or, you know, support, even they might offer help if they see real
Christina Edwards 27:32
potential, or they might know somebody who's like, you know what, I'm not the person, but you need to know this person. So, yeah, don't run out of the room. Don't do it. Yeah, yes. I want to talk about this idea of community building, but let's weave it into this idea that we're talking a little bit in the green room about, which is the topic of civility. So it can be maybe an easier lift to think about community building, creating relationships with people who are like you, right? People who just are like you, right? So how do you how have you you've been a brilliant community builder, both in person and online. How have you done that? Or what are some strategies you can share with us that that are effective where you're not just like getting more people who are just, I'm thinking about people who are like everybody's in agreement. You know, when, like in teenagers, we all today, we're all dressing this way today. This is our style. So it's like you're you're actually developing a community of diverse voices. You're developing a community where, of course, there is some alignment too. So tell us. Tell us what comes up when I say that, yeah,
28:36
well, I can certain, certainly speak to the work that you know inclusive is doing around that, I think, around civility. The first thing that you have to do is make sure that everybody feels welcome. And so in the framing of whatever event you're putting on, we have words matter a lot, and the framing of the even the title The subtitle, will cue people whether they will be welcome there or not. And so being intentional, and just even like as much as I, you know, I obviously inclusive is named that own purpose, because we are all about building a more inclusive world. And so it pains me when people think that that's like a liberal term now, or like I'm clearly on the Democratic team, because, because I am inclusive, and I feel like it's it's instead, it's about making sure that every voice feels heard. And yes, we do really want and you know, but it doesn't mean that all of our topics are on D and I or so forth. So it's really being intentional around how you frame it, and finding the topics and theme themes where people can see themselves in like belonging, even psychological safety, trust versus things that might already have a lean towards one perspective or not right, accidentally, even those are some of the tips of how you. Frame it matters. The second is, gosh, modeling curiosity when a different idea is presenting itself. And say, instead of being like, Nope, that's not what we're about here, or discounting or defending or deflecting or distancing, you know, instead, do everything you can. First control, you know, do what you need to do. Take a breath and then say, can you tell me more about that? And love that phrase, can you tell me more? Lean in and be curious. If there's one thing that we can do that would change the world, it's just to get curious about why people think the way they do, where it came from, what it is, without any taking anything personally right away, because we have no idea this person's experience or relation to the issue or topic. And this goes for the most divisive topics of our time, whether it's around guns or abortion or health care, education, all the things now feel like a hot topic, but oh
Christina Edwards 30:59
my god, you're naming them all. And I could feel myself get fiery.
31:04
And I think we but we have to, we have to be brave enough to actually engage in a conversation and be willing to actually try on the other perspective. And I think the other, the last thing I'll share is when you're being curious, it does not mean that you are agreeing with the person, right? There's this. We have to separate understanding from agreement. And so to be curious about someone does not mean that I am agreeing with you. I'm just wanting to learn more about you and your perspective and what how you got there. So if we can do that, it's kind of like separating the personal from the business, right? Yeah, okay, I can go there and I'm safe. I'm still safe because I still know who I am, and I know my values, and I want to learn more about yours, so that I can just better understand how we got here and where we can go together. Because once you once you stop making it about character assassinations. So yep, then you understand the actual underlying needs. And sometimes, I think gun control, in some ways, or example, even who knows about a lot of common, shared values, that if we were able to get down underneath the emotions, we were able to under understand the needs that we have for safety, for security, for well being and freedom. Then, then we can actually agree on those common, universal values. And then we can start thinking of, okay, how do we solve for this? Then here's my here's my concern. Your concern is this, Hey, here's how we can, we can solve this together. What about?
Christina Edwards 32:39
Yeah, what you just what the power
32:41
of, what if? What if?
Christina Edwards 32:43
Yeah, what you're walking us through reminded me a bit about how organizations will often come to me and they're like, we don't really have many young donors or volunteers, or really anyone followers, anything, not a lot of engagement with millennials and Gen Z primarily. But what you just said is, like, I think the beginning of those conversations of how they want to think about because you're talking about change making, which is like, Hey, I care about this, whether it's the environment, whether, whatever this cause, but maybe the way you're saying it isn't really piquing my interest, or isn't getting me out advocating, I'm not really, and asking these questions and finding that alignment, because it is there, and I agree it's there for a lot of our issues, but we have to be willing to, like, listen, and not say, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm right, you're
33:34
wrong, you nailed it. That's exactly it. That is exactly it. It's and we have this phrase that we love when we are approaching from a true kind of psychologically safe space, I'm not here to be right. I'm here to get it right. And if we can embody that, then it's that leans into curiosity, like to say, I might I have a perspective, but I'm not like clenching to it. So I'm, yeah, I can be malleable, and I want to understand, and I think, like, here's my perspective, what is yours? And let's see if we can find a better path for both of us, because there is always option C, we just don't go there. We don't talk about it. And so, yeah, to find and I'm a big believer in just like calling out the tension. That's one of the things that I love about our structured dialog. For example, I'm holding up an example conversation on allyship, and we have three big intros, and then three big questions. And the first one's all about personal storytelling, and then the third, I think the second one, is about the shared reality, and being able to examine a topic objectively and look at it and start to peel back so that we can say, Oh, wow, wait, okay, all of these different things impact this. And then the final one is like, what if, what if you know, what might be some other ideas or solutions solutions That we can commit to that might change it so it's, it's truly like a transformative conversation, but in a collaborative environment that allows people to really expand their minds and even co create yes future.?
It taught what you're saying reminds me a bit of like this idea of like not being so formal, breaking in the fourth wall, just telling telling the truth, right? I've coached some some clients before where I'm like, you know, you can just tell your prospect. Or if you're in in front of a stage, you can just say, Hey, I'm feeling nervous. Like, you could just say that. Or you can say, I'm about to ask you for a lot of money. You ready? Like, you could just say it in your voice, yeah. Because if I pick up a microphone and I am really nervous, and I say I'm nervous, something happens, like chemically, where it releases that tension, and that's so is, yeah, when you name an emotion, it loses power over you, yes. So when you I can identify it and name it and know that it's there, but it's not you. It's like I'm experiencing anxiety right now. You know? It's not like I am anxious, it's That's right, and it just like you said, acknowledging it and letting and even thanking it for alerting you to something that you care about, and you want to perform well. You want to present yourself well. It automatically communicates vulnerability, which is like catnip for an audience. Any audience that sits there and sees you being vulnerable, they're like they just fell more in love with you, and they want you to succeed. So I think the power of vulnerability, I think, is especially feminine founders. That's when we can use that as a tool for connection. And we don't have to be the one that is, you know, the the one just like, yep, this and super confident and overcome, maybe sometimes a little overconfident, but we can, I like to say like, and we try to exude this mentality with our facilitators. Is this relaxed confidence, and so the sense of like, I understand this and but I'm also like, I'm here to roll with the punches, and I'm not, you know, I may not know everything, but I'm here to figure it out and work it out together. And that, that I feel, is so powerful. So one last piece of advice that I've received, especially when you're thinking about partnering with investors, and saying is, paint the vision of what you're doing and how it aligns to their goals, and then say, imagine what we could do together. So let them be part of the magic making. And say, and have them be part of that story, and inviting them into it, and not just to say you're going to give me money so I can do this, all these great things. No, it's like you're bringing this, this and this, and I'm bringing this. Look what we can do together.
Yes, so good. Ah, so good. This has been, oh, one of my favorite conversations. Thank you for sharing all of this with us. Um, we ask everybody on the podcast to share a mantra, a motto, an affirmation, something that is a go to that you that kind of keeps you going. I thought you'd like to think on purpose. Would you share one with the listeners?
Ooh, can I read this abundance prayer that has been a key Absolutely I like the last three years and
has it must be, if it's like right in front of
your desk and it's handwritten and it's not mine, it's from a book called it's not your money, which everybody here should read. Forgive me, I can't remember the author's name, but it's not your money, and it really shifted the story I had in my head about money and even abundance, and so I'll read it out loud and perfect, but it says, divine, beloved, allow me to give with complete ease and abundance, knowing that you are the unlimited source of all. Let me be an easy, open conduit for your prosperity. Let me trust that all my own needs are always met in amazing ways, and that it is safe to give freely as my heart guides and equally, let me feel wildly open to receiving. May I know my own value, beauty, worthiness without question. Let me allow others the supreme pleasure of giving to me. May I feel worthy to receive in every possible way. Change me into one who can fully love, forgive and accept myself, so I may carry your light without restriction, let everything that needs to go go and everything that needs to come come. I am utterly your own. I am you. You are me. We are one all as well. Oh, I mean, there are, I still get chills when I read it out.
Oh my gosh.
40:00
I mean, there were. There was this one line where I actually used to choke up because I didn't believe Yeah, and I like this one, this one, one, I had to work on this a lot. But I feel. Worthy to receive in every possible way. Change me into one who can fully love, forgive and accept myself so that I may carry your light without restriction. Beautiful. That's what it's also gonna right. Sometimes we just get a way. We get it most of the time, all the time, and yes and we are designed. We are here on this earth to do amazing things, and if we just allow that to happen, and it will be
Christina Edwards 40:33
so surprised. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Where can we sign up for an inclusive conversation. Where can we find you? Tell us all the places.
40:43
Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, we have lots of opportunities to get involved. We have our if you're interested in learning more about particularly inclusive leadership. We have an amazing monthly inclusive leadership journey that is going to continue throughout 2025 it's about a 90 minute session. You get a little bit of training, followed by peer to peer dialog, really powerful, and that's like. You can sign up on our website under membership. Also, we have our new civility series that is awesome. It starts next week and so but, but it's going to be ongoing, similar to the journey. It's a four month commitment, and this is really kind of giving you the skills and tools for deep, meaningful conversations in your workplace, in your home. I gave one live yesterday, and someone was like, This is great marriage counseling advice to go really deep into, like emotional intelligence and needs, and being able to talk about that and but also psychological safety and all of these key components of just interpersonal skills that haven't been taught right since kindergarten. So I think it's a good refresher for a lot of this. And so this ability series is also also findable. And then, of course, we can host private sessions within organizations large and small. So come find me. Follow me on LinkedIn. We're always posting the longest and greatest on there, inclusive is on LinkedIn and Instagram and inclusive.com
Christina Edwards 42:14
We'll link to everything. We'll link to the book too. Oh, we desire as people to be connected. And I just want to offer so many organizations, so many leaders and founders are doing this, just like we are today, in our own offices, siloed, alone and these moments, I'm a member of the series of being able to come to the series, whether it's once a month or especially the civility as we move into the holidays, I'm like, what If we didn't avoid conversations. What if we just listened? And what if that, instead of, like, avoiding your uncle, and, you know, those conversations with him about whatever the hot button political issue is, I'm like, what if we actually just didn't have the charge on it? I wonder what that could do. Well, what if we love him? Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I'm like, don't go into that conversation with this. Go in the conversation with a toolkit, which is that series of like, this is how to have those. So you don't, you know, yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have,
43:14
and it's so hard. Everybody does, but you get to practice, and then you fall in love, and then you realize, oh, wow, I was so worried and fearful, but because we the reason what keeps us from is because we don't want to lose those relationships. Our desire for connection is so powerful and one of the biggest universal needs that we all have. And so we are we, but we also want meaning, and we want to feel like our our forces matter. So there's a way to do both with kindness and dignity and respect. And so that's our mission. We're trying to just share the tools, the practical tools and skills that you can have to basically engage with anyone, anywhere. There it is. Oh, thank
Christina Edwards 43:58
you. Thank you.
43:59
Thank you. Christina.